My brain hurts

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 01/25/2016 at 00:11 • Filed to: None

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My dad died before he got a chance to attempt to explain how the complicated and engineering heavy hydronic heating system in the cabin worked. Now, since its failed 2 times already this winter...and since a failure means busted pipes...Its up to me I guess to sort it all out.

Now I’m pretty tech savvy but this stuff is pretty intense. I think I got a handle on it enough to know how to troubleshoot the basic stuff...or at least guess. Thankfully my dad was a big believer in documentation so he has all the original manuals, highlighted with the right codes and his hand written notes on the system in a big binder that i was reading until midnight last night. Learned a lot, for example did you know that condensing boilers produce as a byproduct liquid exhaust gas that happens to be acidic enough to score concrete? NEAT! Anyway, I think I have a handle on what all the major bits and pieces do including the 2 expansion tanks, low-loss header, 2 relay boxes and 9 individual high temp pumps but I am still trying to work my brain around ideal supply temps, optimal condensing temps, and related delta t for optimal heat transfer for a given flow rate and head height as well as heating curves and shifts. Turns out that the problem both times it failed was that someone had turned off the valves to the expansion tanks, effectively depressurizing the boiler (its smart enough not to fire if there is no pressure). Anyway, if there are HVAC scientists out there, my hat is off to you...its tricky stuff.

I also learned that the electro-mechanical clutches in the front hubs of the old big boss 6x6 need some service. It’s neat how they work, but it means more troubleshooting and fixing.

Still, its certainly worth the hassle.

I’ve also discovered that its really hard to find competent contractors these days, but that’s another story. Also found out my mom was en route [driving] to the sea of Cortez [from Utah] with the one armed man she’s met only twice in person on a whim of an invite. I found this out incidentally when I called to see if she could babysit for us. The feels, I have them. Also, I beat Jenga, no moves left. Whats up with you guys?

TheHondaBro > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2016 at 00:17

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Now you see, that doohickey is connected to the thingamajigger and the whatchamacallit goes through the thingy and whatnot. What you gotta do is dial it back ten whole PVC’s and wait about 10 hours for the heat gas to rise to sufficient speeds.

I’m an engineer ing student .

Birddog > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2016 at 00:23

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That’s a really nice system. Hydronics is easy if you keep the basics in mind.

Is that on straight Glycol or Water?

HammerheadFistpunch > Birddog 01/25/2016 at 00:27

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40% Glycol apparently. (He had datasheets to pick the optimal blend of glycol/water in the notes) Its a cool system, but the sad story is that its not really a great system for the house. its an extremely poorly insulated building with a really goofy layout and its only heated for 2-3 days at a time so the time to heat isn’t great and even at full chat its barely keeping up with losses at night with its single digits out. I was hoping I could play with the flow rates or curves to get a little more out of it.

HammerheadFistpunch > TheHondaBro 01/25/2016 at 00:28

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I always though the thingy was kinda lame, but its more than just a black brick, and its kinda key to the whole system.

Mattbob > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2016 at 00:58

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My parents have a veissmann. The motor has failed like 3 time. I think the most recent was due to water intrusion from the looks of it. They are net when they work though. Im in europe for the first time this week.. Whooooo... But its for work.

TheHondaBro > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2016 at 01:10

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I’m fairly certain that no part of that mess isn’t key in any way.

1111111111111111111111 > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2016 at 01:13

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Well the beauty of having a sweet cabin with heating designed by someone who knew what they were doing is the fact that you should be up to the task if only by proxy.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2016 at 15:05

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Does that boiler have an outdoor reset? Possibly called something different, but it is a temp gage that mounts outside. The water temp is then figured based on the outside temp so that you don’t overheat your house. For something like this where you want a quick(er) response you can adjust the outdoor reset curve so that the water temp is maxed out, but that will lead to a big overshoot, especially if you’ve got infloor as opposed to baseboard tubes.

I’ve got a Triangle Tube boiler with the outdoor reset in my house. I like it for the fact that it is quiet and you don’t have noticeable temp swings. I did have to mess with the reset curve because the defaults are for infloor heat and for baseboard tubes like I’ve got you need a much higher temp.

vicariousILive > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2016 at 15:43

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Your mom is going to baja before we get the chance too!! ...we should just go there on a whim

HammerheadFistpunch > vicariousILive 01/25/2016 at 16:48

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right?!

HammerheadFistpunch > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/25/2016 at 16:50

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Yes, it has outdoor reset but the curve is already 2.4 so its hitting up against its Hlimit when its really cold out. Besides you can’t have the supply temp so high that the return temp is above the condensation point for the flue gasses. The Calculations are on the money, but there isn’t enough wall space for sufficient fin tube. In some places its forced air fine tube and in some places its panel. It would be a killer system if I lived there but to come up friday night and have it start to feel warm is a hard thing to ask of it.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2016 at 20:17

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Hot water is great heat for a house that is permanently occupied. For a weekend cabin it's just not that good since the response time is so long.

HammerheadFistpunch > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/25/2016 at 20:34

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Combined with a high btu pellet stove and a blow my mind good split mini heat pump, it does tho job